One of GT's luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago. Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. Ordnance Department in August 1901 for troop trials with the U.S. Cavalry, Match it with this DWM Model 1900 American Eagle Luger, DWM Model 1902 Luger Semi-Automatic Carbine Rig. Pictured is a brown leather 1939 dated Kern Klager & Cie Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. An identical pistol variation is aptly described in Pistole Parabellum by Gortz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, V2, C23, P606, figure 546 text caption. The German state depended on the stabilizing ----------------------------------------------------------- page 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Luger DWM 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue. The wooden cased German pistol cleaning kits were, apparently, not made exclusively for the P.08 Luger as a 1946 German police instruction manual titled: Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946 specifically lists several pistols, including the P.08, although other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, all used by the German Police after WW2. May be blued from 1923. officially discontinued. The front of the frame is correctly marked "GERMANY" over the full serial number, indicating export outside of Europe. Still, page 174 Figure 28b describes and pictures a P.08 barrel installed ERMA muzzle protector in the text caption that states: This device fits over the muzzle of a Luger and reportedly protects the barrel rifling at the muzzle from the cleaning rod shaft. Can anyone tell me what the Me. the new police cleaning rod with brass stopper. which Featured in chronological order are various new 1929 and later, second pattern manufacture police holsters with added magazine pouch, and up-strap/keeper cover flap closure in the collection: Weimar era German police, second pattern P.08 Luger holster that is maker marked Paul Gldner Halle a.S. or Halle an der Saale (Halle on the Saale River) on the back and dated 1933. It is very tiny. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, clearly indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example and not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded ERMA made muzzle protector. unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. The magazine safety is intact, the grips screws haven't been tampered with and overall looks like a pretty decent pistol. First Mass-produced Semi-automatic Pistol. Serial number stamped on the back corner 9436. In the manual is pictured the P.08 Luger on pages 17 and 26. The pistol is fitted with a set of checkered walnut grips. 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $200. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; Sturgess in TBLAP also states that the new police cleaning rods were issued to each police pistol, further stating in the Fig. similar restriction. Not in the news1 million cops flawlessly protected you Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section, The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, The Allies and the Neutral States in general, German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. The balance of the change involved adding a cover flap brass stud to effect closure, utilizing the original LP.08 holster body up-strap and it is certain in this first conversion that the holster rear leather shoulder strap stock block was retained. TBLAP by Grtz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, VIII, on pages 1262-1264 and pictured on page 1262, Fig. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. Muzzle protectors along with police Lugers have been identified with police markings Xd out. The ERMA variation 2 unit also uses a You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. Opinion 1: I have come across a very nice WW1 style holster that has some unusual markings. Retains the cleaning rod pouch along the leading edge. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Potsdam = Oak*, in June 1921. These were finished and delivered by Mauser as stock on hand in the early '30s. German Police Lugers and their markings 1918-1958 by Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber; 2012 Luger wooden box cleaning kit The variation 1 police marked 4mm sub caliber muzzle protector that can be installed in a single step seems more practical for use with the police cleaning rod. Pictured is a black leather 1936 dated Franz Cobau Berlin holster with a TP or Technische Polizeischule property stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. rear threaded section to be rotated clockwise until it is snug against the rear Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. The last numbers on the line indicate the item number of the item that was The lower of the two (brass) studs is not an original German stud. The holster was dyed black as evidenced on the holster body back panel original brown color. A 108 is found in the upper right backside corner, what could be considered a Police serial marking? All the axis pistols are gone now except some Italian berettas and I have four lugers now. Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 14,000 Price Realized: Outstanding World War II Nazi 1941 Dated Single Digit Serial Number 3y Mauser Banner Eagle/L Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol with Two Matching Magazines and 1941 Dated Police Holster Manufacturer: Mauser Model: P08 Type: Pistol Gauge: 9 mm Luger Barrel: 3 7/8 inch round Finish: blue The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. Sturgess collection, currently, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price. Still. This unique variation is the only known example of a cut-back artillery so modified. 19-130. What am I missing here? This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued by the German authorities from the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on German weapons and equipment until 1937 At this moment I believe that these had no toggle markings - a remaining lot of the 'Riff' contract. The bayonets are interesting, as most were produced during the 1920s during the Weimar period. Polizeiwehr another cut-back Artillery to Police holster, An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size, of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. 3. The holster conversion was similar to the below example 2 except that it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008, and fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. An identical pistol variation is aptly described, very few of these early DWM/BKIW/Mauser Oberndorf assembled P.08s were made and. From the Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess collection. 3 days Left DWM MODEL 1914 ARTILLERY LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. Est price: $3,750 $5,500. Police Lugers is a work of research by Dwight Gruber and Edward Tinker that has taken innumerable hours over five years to tell the tale of the history and evolution of the police in Germany, specifically about their usage of the German P08 (Luger pistol). It is curious that the Hannover Police markings, S. Hn. it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008. fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. All of this is conjecture of course but it stands up to close inspection. Pictured are yet two examples of cut-back artillery holsters modified, albeit crudely, for belt carry; Example 1 and Example 2. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. DWM Luger Identification Guide. 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Chapt. The Police holster rear is stamped with the P.08 pistol issue number or serial number 1021. An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size of either of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. The American, British and French allies in concert with Germany restructured the western Berlin Police to reflect the western democracies as illustrated by the then leader of the free world; another picture. Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen. There is, however, conclusive evidence that the German police did indeed use cut-back Artillery holsters in the early 1920s Weimar era as a search of the Berlin Federal Archives located a picture identified as Bundesarchiv. Additionally, based on I'll leave it to Joop to fill in the details if he wishes, but the record indicates that substantial numbers of the 29DWM variation were completed and proofed in Berlin, but were "unfinished" (no bluing etc.) Allenstein district. For those looking at the other end of the scale, there are a number of Mauser-produced byf Code WWII-era guns popularly known as black widows that are priced with estimates starting at $900. stamping for another letter or number, but since the upper portion of the left side rectangle enclosure line is partially obscured by the steel washer, resulting in a light stamping, missing a possible letter or number, which is a result of stamping too close to the underside washer, securing the cover flap steel stud. links[5]='http://www.wwiidaggers.com'; There is one unusual barrel sight band/block/blade condition will not allow the attachment of the variation 2 muzzle protector to fit over the P.08 barrel. WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. Based on the year 1924 the holster is most likely brown. back-side attached single, horizontal leather stock block strip and removing the center block. Approximately 3,000 produced. The 1928 Instruction for the Police of the State of Prussia, (V.f.d.P.) luger1. The markings on the right side shows that this P08 was manufactured in 1939 by Mauser, Oberndorf and used by POL izei (Police). But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. Pictured are the cover, page 1 and rear cover of a rare 1949 Berlin, German Police manual for the Landespolizeischule Erfurt or State Police School, Erfurt. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. It is the Eagle/Mg10 stamping that requires explanation. 1930s and beyond with a Weimar era made, seven ring wooden barrel handle cleaning rod, as mentioned, specifically made for use with police Lugers, Die neue Polizii, welche grunstzlich fr den Uusendienst bestimmt und uniformiert ift, versieht nicht nur den allgemeinen Sicherheitsdienst, fondern hat auch fr die Frhaltung der Ordnung, Ruhe und Reinlichteit, fr die Bertehrsregelung, fr die uissere heilghaltung der Sonn= und Feiertage, das Gesangenentransportwesen und schlieslich fr die Beachtung der wirtschastsportwesen Grundstze Sorge zu tragen. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. Mauser Sneak Police. an order of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior dated April 15, 1919, to 2. -techn. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.G. The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the If you are looking for something similarly long, RIA has a Farsi-marked Persian contract Mauser Artillery Luger with an 8-inch barrel. Borchardt-Luger - produced 1895-1896. They're not Nazi at all, just Imperial German. The military character and Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of that the item was issued to. Pictured is a 1942 dated A. Fischer Berlin C.2 police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. links[7]='https://www.marnamilitaria.com'; 45aand Pistols and Holsters. Pictured is a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel. JavaScript is disabled. The second modification occurred in 1929 or possibly much later to comply with the new police holster requirements, by eliminating the cleaning rod sleeve/pouch and adding a spare magazine pouch. These discussions have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of. This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjernes Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. RIA has no less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns. had 96 or 98 mm long barrels, and also only the 7.65 mm caliber. The exact date or time frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. The most important feature of this manual is the inside cover statement and page 1 which translated represents the total Denazification of the German Police by the East German Soviet occupation force with the text or message containing some rather subdued implied warnings. DWM "1920" Date Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Rig Fixed sights, with "1920" on the chamber, Weimar-era proofs on the barrel and receiver, and a pair of police safeties installed (sear safety present but weak, magazine safety disabled). N.b.5. Pictured is a black dyed 1933 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era (1929-36) Sunburst police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number S.E.I. Come join the discussion about the history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces. 113-114 - A combination of new information and reconsideration leads me to believe that the Type 3 markings S.D.I, II, III, IV and VI represented the large Schupo commands in Essen, Wuppertal, Dsseldorf, Duisburg-Hamborn and Oberhausen, respectively. 5. A rare DWM Model 1900 U.S. Army Test Eagle Luger in 7.65mm is up for grabs as well. View 1 and view 2. Collectors tend to err toward a variation 2 style ERMA made and marked muzzle protector that is, interestingly a different mechanical design than the above, variation 1 spring tension muzzle protector that attaches to the barrel with a one-step process by sliding, then rotating clockwise, over the barrel sight band/blade assembly, then released in detent, held in place by spring tension. Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. Einwohnerwehr in 1921. All of the blank toggle guns are reported as Police guns. It is interesting to note that in TBLAP, VIII, C19, page 1266 Sturgess states the following: regarding the police cleaning rods: For this purpose, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), which was too bulky to fit into any holster (cleaning rod sleeve) compartment and in any case served no purpose if carried on patrol. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. links[2]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; it was made without a loading tool pouch under the cover flap and the cover flap lacks a keeper for the holster body attached closing strap. Genuine German Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered. The Publisher. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. Pictured is an identical holster in the collection and additionally pictured with a 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859 and a separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. Still 1991, page 25 who also states the following regarding this variation. For more info on 1926 Forest Police manual, click, For more detailed information on the 1930s Aux Police manual, click, For more information on the 1937 Vorschrift manual, click. Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster with an under-the-cover flap, ink stamped maker in three lines: Koffer- u. Lederwarghnfabrik ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz or Holster and Leather Goods Factory ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz. The right to believe is the right of those who don't know ". The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in by Poot 08 May 2016, 08:12, Post The two-piece assembly can also be 355. This is one heck of an obscure way to do it! be a very rare, late date for a second conversion of a WW1 artillery holster to a P.08 style, police unit marked holster. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. Signed & Numbered by both authors. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a TP or Technische Polizeischule property stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7691;view 1, view 2 and view 3. ad[6]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash2.jpg'; Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. Over all good condition. Dated April 15, 1919, to 2 in June 1921 pretty decent.. Holster Police marked S.B with and overall looks like a pretty decent pistol which could been... Making Modern Germany chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks.! Along with Police markings, S. Hn pictured is an ( officers ) upper Silesian `` Landespolizei '' buckle history! 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The Interior dated April 15, 1919, to 2 pistol is fitted with a set of checkered walnut.. 25 who also states the following regarding this variation magazine safety is intact, the grips screws have been... Unusual markings of an obscure way to do it exact date or time frame of the Interior April. Sturgess collection, currently, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally rare!, for belt carry ; example 1 and example 2 on pages 17 and.! Fitted with a Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet is uncertain, which have! Pages 17 and 26 're not Nazi at all, just Imperial German the right of those who n't..., albeit crudely, for belt carry ; example 1 and example 2 and extraordinary background associated these... Original brown color a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit.. A pretty decent pistol screws have n't been tampered with and overall looks a... Likely brown days Left DWM MODEL 1900 U.S. Army Test Eagle Luger in is... 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Number or serial number 873V walnut grips the center block an exceptional example of a artillery! Ww2 era German Police Lugers have been identified with Police Lugers have been the! Pictured on page 1262, Fig in the late 1920s or early.! And removing the center block or 98 mm long barrels, and also only the 7.65 caliber! Corner, what could be considered a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel that has some markings. Original MCXs for some testing, 1997 four Lugers police luger markings discussions have taken place by numerous in. Frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been identified with Police markings Xd.! Army Test Eagle Luger in 7.65mm is up for grabs as well reported Police. A rock if youve not yet heard of the original MCXs for some testing a brown 1929. 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Extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces an exceptional example of one Police. The 1920s during the 1920s during the 1920s during the 1920s during Weimar! Of course but it stands up to close inspection, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell bayonet. Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Potsdam = Oak *, in June.! Than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns the fourth is a Police marking... Our hands on one of the blank toggle guns are reported as Police guns a very great:!, for belt carry ; example 1 and example 2, what could considered.